—————————————
Merv wrote:

well, for what it’s worth, here’s my personal update:

to “correct” my comment above (#18), iGTD is not a PIM; it’s a task-management app, so it probably doesn’t really belong in this lineup.

a few months ago, i tried (and ultimately paid for) KIT, but soon thereafter, i learned there were better options, and i landed — temporarily — at yojimbo. and yes, i paid for it, too. yojimbo really is a quite robust application with an active development and support team. i agree that one of its biggest limitations is the lack of support for nested folders, but i have to believe they’ll add this functionality soon. i also wish it gave us the option of simply linking to various files, rather than importing them into its proprietary, monolithic “tome.” i sort of never know whether to keep the “original” document after it’s been imported into yojimbo. what if yojimbo’s datase becomes corrupted? if so, and if i’ve trashed my originals, then my documents are gone. but on the other hand, i don’t like the idea of having 2 copies of every document cluttering up my drive. finally, i dislike yojimbo’s logo, but that’s a minor quibble.

still, while actively using yojimbo, i kept poking around. and presently i must say i’m more impressed with journler than any others in this category. it is jam-packed with features, and it really is worth a close look. in fact, this recent tuaw podcast featuring journler is what got me hooked:

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/05/24/tuaw-podcast-24-journler/

so journler is becoming my favorite in this category. but for me, there are 2 drawbacks: (1) it doesn’t (yet) sync via .mac, but the developer has said he will add this in the future; and (2) i wish journler’s “drop box” were as discreet and attractive as yojimbo’s transparent tab, which sits unobtrusively at the edge of your screen. instead, journler’s drop box is accessed via a folder alias that sits on your desktop (unless you move it). as someone who prefers to keep his desktop free of all clutter, i’m very disappointed that journler’s drop box works in this manner. with the exception of these two items, i think journler is the superior application.

unfortunately, since i’ve gotten hooked on yojimbo’s .mac sync, i have not yet switched completely to journler. i’m still determining if i can love without .mac sync. journler’s feature set makes it very tempting indeed. if so, it will definitely be journler for me.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/03/31/igtd-gtd-quicksilver-powerful-app/

because it’s priced similarly to devonthink, i wonder if it might have a more complete and robust feature set, such as you’ve come to rely upon in devonthink — but with a more modern GUI. since most of the other apps are far less expensive, i wonder if any of them will ever compare to devonthink.

i really appreciate what you’re doing — taking a look at all of these apps. i desperately need to commit to one, but was looking for someone doing exactly what you’re doing, so i can narrow the field. i’ll keep watching.

thanks!

But here lies the problem. While I don’t agree with the *tone* of the previous poster, I agree that the features that the developers have put so much of their energy into recently is — to me — underwhelming. I tried to like “office”. I downloaded it, played with it, scanned to it, etc.. I’m sure there are people who will find it useful with the feature set it currently offers (it seems a lot of new people are posting on the DT forum since this was offered, and I’m happy for the developers…they are a great set of guys). And, unlike the previous poster, I *do* have lots of paper I want to digitize — a lot of articles I need to read and incorporate into my research are just not available digitally, despite the plethora of journals that are online. Like it or not, in many professions (like academia), you deal with a lot of paper. In the end, however, I found the quality and ease of workflow with Acrobat 8 was better than DT Pro Office. And so I quietly stopped using it. I “downgraded” back to DT Pro, I use Acrobat to do all my scanning and and OCR’ing (and I do quite a lot), and then I file the results quite easily into DT Pro.

So I think a lot of the problem has to do with how people perceive this category of software. Basically, I have come to realize that the current manifestations of DT Pro are best used as repositories — to use a metaphor, a library, with things I want to read, store, and access later. In that capacity, DT Pro is the best. But as a place to keep a journal of my meetings, a place to jot down quick info about this or that event, to file temporary notices and papers, a place to organize *non-permanent* information in conjunction with GTD-type apps…I find it to be overkill in some ways, and just not there in many others.

Which is fine. I have just come to realize that perhaps — as DT stands now — I need another alternative for that type of information, to help organize my life (and not my research) in conjunction with Mail, iCal, and my GTD app (kGTD, by the way, until OmniFocus comes out, simply because of the excellent way it integrates with iCal and thus my PDA and with Quicksilver to transparently and quickly get things in there).

So that’s how I came upon this page, basically trying to figure out which of EagleFiler, KIT, Yojimbo, Journler and the rest would be best for THAT purpose. I want something that is fluid and transparent in how it works, has tagging and quick reliable searching, won’t lock me in, integrates well with other PIM apps that are part of OS X, and works well with the Mac ecosystem of scripting particularly. It needs to accept every type of file that information can come in and allow me to view it and modify it easily (namely txt, rtf, doc, html, web archives, and PDF) since I get tons of information daily in any of these formats, and I don’t want to have to process, say, PDF into RTF just to store something…I don’t have time for that.

So while I want many of the features in DT Pro that the previous poster was clamouring about (and a few others that are academic related), I think it would be best if people — myself included — that there is nothing called one glove fits all. DT Pro is my library, application X (from those reviewed here) will be my notebook, and I have iCal for my calendar, Mail.app for my mail box, etc. etc.

And while I must admit that I wish that the DT developers’ resources had gone into improving the core feaures of DT and adding a few more focues on those core features (better AI, better ways of massaging and manipulating files already in the DT, transparent databses viz a viz the Finder, cross-databse searchability, multiple databases) instead of the OCR (which has so many limitations due to their licensing): to be fair, many of these features are on the horizon of 2.0. And more importantly, at the end of the day, it is THEIR app, and they probably know what’s best for their company. Now, on the flip side, it is MY app to, since I’ve invested so much of my effort into it, and in that sense, anyone who gets a license, works in, and contributes to the forums of an app is a share-holder. But a shareholder is not a CEO, nor a board of directors. And if it’s not working for you, then invest elsewhere.

To end positively, the fact that we have so much competition and selection here touts that the Mac is the creative OS. I love that many of these indie developers are so open to discussion and change. The folks at DT are like that, Michael Tsai of EagleFiler is like that, the gent doing Notebook, Jon at Sonny Software’s Bookends…all are very open, though focued, developers. Its a good place to be.

Boo! Hiss! - Version: 1.3 beta, 11/30/2006 11:21AM PST

MS5STAR
First the new name addition, “Office?” Please. If this naming strategy isn’t an indication of the fact that the Devon team is running out of ideas then there’s plenty more. Of all the potential features that could be added to DThink Pro to advance the solid foundation of an info manager that I’ve been a beneficiary and solid supporter of for more than a year now, “Office” (yuck) brings us “drum roll please!”

“Image capture and OCR. (silence befalls the auditorium). “Oh yead and did we mention email archive?” (silence permeating) “Oh, and a web server!” (a few intermittent claps quickly fade followed by a few jeers)

“Lame!”
“We want client to client network sharing!”
“Yeah! Web Shmeb!”
“What idiots asked for OCR?”

Let’s face it, if you’re still garnering enough paper assets to warrant scan and OCR capabilities from within Devonthink pro “Office” (schlock), you should probably rethink your strategy for becoming a paperless DevonThink Pro “Office” (putrid) buff. In other words, start demanding more items in digital format, set up accounts to email you statements and so forth (they do that these days). And if you’re just getting started with Devonthink Pro “Office” (detritus) and need to go through an initial period of paper digitization, please use another package for that and quit wasting our precious feature requests up for trifling features like capture and convert.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I still can’t open any more than one dtbase at a time. And Spotlight all but ignores my dtbase files so I can’t even use mdutil to query a folder full of dtbase files, nor can I use Devonthink Pro “Office/Stooge” to query across multiple dtbase files.

How about smart folders? Anybody else tired of only analog folders when it comes to manually organizing content?

The graphical user interface could use years of updating as well, it’s very tired, very old. Compared to the plethora of modern info managers arising for os x, Devonthink Pro “Office/Cheesy” offers a very 2001 look and feel. It lacks dimension, effervescence, “Mac-ness”. It feels more like Windows 98 these days than anything Mac anymore. Quite honestly, the aesthetics of this application are as boring as it gets. I know it doesn’t exist to entertain, but come on! I haven’t noticed but does Devonthink Pro “Office/Doltish” even support growl?

Instead of OCR (whoever the hell asked for that!), we should have asked for better features, like a quick search/reference capability, so you don’t have to bring up the hulking interface just do make a quick reference. And maybe fully regex ready? Multiple dtbases open at a time; sharing databases BETWEEN CLIENTS and not YAWn (Yet Another Web aNswer); spotlight integration; smart folders; search across multiple dtbases; link to files (versus index & import); I’d love iLife-ish integration (itunes, iphoto, addressbook type osx integration, like ecto, soho(don’t go there), journler).

How about top-tier Blogging Features? After all, if you’re going to keep all your info organized with Devonthink Pro “Office/Moronic”, why not be able to drum up a weblog post using that info right there so accessible in front of you? Select some text from a webarchive or your own notes, click blog this and the blogging window pops up along with a palette that provides the ilife os x integration of displaying your organized playlists from itunes, photos in iphoto, emails addresses and otherwise from addressbook, maybe events from ical, movies (swfs, mpeg-4’s, etc from itunes) and so forth, each under it’s respective tab on the palette, and then media, emails, urls, etc could be drag’n dropped into the post, then click post (be it blogger, LJ, metaweblog, etc) and bing!

How about some mind mapping features? Or the ability to generate mind map views of classification structures, folder hierarchies and document paths. An ability to add tags to items and then generate mapped views of certain relationships based on certain tag strategies?

But no… instead, capture, ocr, mail, and yawn.

I feel like a dunce for expecting too much.

To tout artificial-intelligence is no small claim. I was captivated by this feature from the start, and had hoped that future advances would cunningly build on this feature and present even more powerful tools. Unfortunately it’s more like the creator of the first usefully solid hydro-powered engine is trying to continue wooing it’s adopters by upgrading the gas cap. (yawn) And then charge a lot extra for doing so.

By simply looking back at the beginnings that were Devonthink Pro, it’s plain to see that the ladies and gents at Devon are capable of more than shiny new gas caps. Until that day comes, I foresee plenty of Think users either waiting out the drought, or keeping a keen eye on blogs like musings from mars and merlin mann’s 43folders for any hints at budding alternatives.

In a nutshell, Devonthink Pro is now a has-been. > Feature Requests @ DEVONthink Pro

On the Curio front, once upon a time I wanted to believe, but unfortunately the app doesn’t quite pull it off. Most notably, they expect users to use the little browser that’s built into the app for pulling items off the web and throwing them into a curio doc. Yet another solution that doesn’t understand that they’re creating a tool to supplement process and not be the focus of everything. Curio also touts applescriptibility but fails to mention that the app itself isn’t scriptible (no dictionary, no automator actions), simply that you can use the properties panel within the app to attach scripts to objects created in the canvas area.

To top if off, Curio doesn’t include any services whatsoever, and again, on the automator front, not even a print pdf to curio. I’m amazed at how many developers still aren’t aware of these powerful OS X integration features yet. And the backgrounds and textures offered in Curio? Yikes! Either hire a good designer or dump them entirely because now we are talking Windows 95! There are too many Curio features that border on the anti-mac.

In the meantime, I’m still holding my breath for OmniFocus.Thanks Leland and all you posters for sharing your experience with such apps, offering tips, etc. I know I’ve already spent too much time myself wading through the seas of these tools.

http://blog.omnigroup.com/2006/09/25/omnifocus-our-work-in-progress/

KIT pulls through in some of the areas where Yojimbo falls short (linking to files and smart folders), but again, no nesting of folders, the services menu is terribly weak, there’s no applescript dictionary, no workflows (including print pdf to KIT), etc, etc, etc.

Solid service menus also allow for Quicksilver to be a solid middle man, but so often service menu attempts are lousy or altogether left out!

I have to comment on Soho notes, for I was as intrigued by it as our good author is, once upon a time. I was excited at all of the possibilities, I even invested in it, and after putting in lots of hard work, attempting to correspond with soho support and so forth, I can honestly say I’ve never experienced such a horrendous product-company tandem in my life! And I truly mean that, especially as I don’t use any M$ products

I’d love to go on and on, but I found that the reviews on versiontracker with respect to (or lack there of) soho notes hit the nail on the head for me. There’s a reason they get hammered in their reviews. I’ve copied the review and I’ll paste it at the end of my comment. In the meantime, as an avid user (and enthusiast) of most of the Omni Group’s products (along with GTD), I’m anxiously awaiting OmniFocus. I hope it stays out of the way when I need it to while at the same time remaining ever vigilant for the info I’ll be sending it’s way. And then when I need to work with my info, see it from multiple perspectives, reference it, investigate relationships, and get stuff done, I’ll be happy to summon an audience with it.

Here’s the Soho rant I identified with:

“Soho OhNo

I’m familiar with the grain of salt one must take with software reviews on sites such as this. But I urge you, if you ever decide to take one application recommendation into serious consideration, this is the one. I’ve already lost months of time and sanity due to the utter carelessness of both Soho developers and Soho support.

Interestingly, Soho recently removed user forums from their site. Although it wasn’t stated anywhere that this was due to the growing number of posted complaints, there’s a great chance that such was the impetus for their decision. I know many ex-Soho users who would agree.

Soho’s OpenBase implementation is wrought with calamity. Although many of the features look great on paper, many fall short of actually delivering, and some haven’t even made an appearance yet! Soho Organizer touts seamless ical integration, just wait for your surprise when attempt to work with your calendar in Organizer and instead you’re confronted with a “Coming Soon” message while iCal launches in the background. Who does this!? This is beyond even Google’s “beta-syndrome”. This instance is a prime example of the overall experience you’ll have with Soho, from top to bottom.

Organizer is a glorified address book which gives new meaning to the word overkill; Notes is a promise undelivered with enticing features like flashnote and quicksearch that turn out to be clumsy, clutzy and clunky executions of the idea. In fact the entire Soho Suite overall is much to prominent (”in your face”) to be considered an elegant information organization application. Instead of accommodating your workflow on the side and in the background, Soho makes it feel like you’re launching Photoshop, Logic Pro or Maya, simply to manage your info.

If you want to save yourself time and sanity, there are other, much more solid choices, my favorites of which include:
DevonThink Pro
OmniOutliner Pro with Kinkless GTD
OmniPlan (currently in beta)
OmniGraffle Pro
Curio
VoodooPad
Yojimbo
Yep (iPhoto for PDF’s) To quickly print a file to your Yep collection, choose File>Print (or Command P), Then in the Print Dialog you should see a button in the lower left corner labeled “PDF”. If you click it, you’ll get a drop-down menu and from it, select “Add to Yep”. Bing! All done. Next time you launch Yep, you’ll be prompted to add any search tags (metadata) to your recently printed dox.

Additionally, consider the advances in your operating system and how the evolution of Mac OS X is offering more and more, powerful information management possibilities. I use some third party applications along with features like spotlight, search (Find), and Mac’s built in Apache server for organizing and searching for information, organizing projects, asset libraries and so forth. Here’s some of the ingredients for such recipes:

SpotMeta (Your own Spotlight searchable labeling system)
BSP (configurable categories for spotlight)
QuickSilver (a launcher that does just that plus everything else you could ever imagine (and then some). Use it for taking quick notes and sending them behind the scenes to applications like DevonThink, Ominoutliner using Kinkless GTD , VoodooPad or even make stickies or TextEdit files from them. To do so (assuming you’ve installed the right plugins using the QuickSilver preference setting window under plugins, you can simply launch quicksilver (default ctrl spacebar), type a period ” . ” to call up text mode, type your note or paste the text you want, hit the tab key to move to the command mode, and you’ll be able to type Send to KGTD or make sticky or create document, etc.
Default Folder X (allows you to add spotlight comments to your files, from the Save Dialog)
Mac OS X Server - Spotlight Module (If you happen to have Mac OS X Server 10.4, consider implementing the Spotlight Web Search feature on your localhost, where you have pertinent information stored).
SmartFolders (built in to Mac OS X Tiger: along with spotmeta and/or BSP, you have a powerful means of creating custom views of any of your work files, reference files, pictures, media, etc.)
iClip (although I truly wish iClip was searchable as after your iclip db reaches a certain size, your brain has to stretch)

Of course there are many other great solutions out there, some which simpy aren’t coming to mind right now. The moral of the story is, with all the solid options out there, there’s no reason to waste an ounce of frustration on any of Soho’s subpar solutions. I hope this has helped a little. Best of luck in your search for your right solution!”

I have been using StickyBrain and then SOHO notes but then it all fell apart - I lost a month of data and can’t get the program to behave the way it used to in several features - even after re-installing. Something flaky. So I am looking around for something else.

I need a PIM that I can rely on. Devonthink looks good but I sorely miss the many bells and whistles that SOHO has/had - even syncing with my Treo. (Incidentally you should try the “quickNote” feature - I think that is what you want)

I have found two PIMs that you have not mentioned.
EagleFiler - promising, simple but doesn’t yet do nested folders it seems.
http://c-command.com/eaglefiler/

Yep - makes everything into a PDF and maintains an iPhoto database. Haven’t tried it yet.
http://www.thekip.com/

Thanks again for your labor of love on this site.

Graham

I have one little tip, although you might have come across that already:
You don’t necessarily need a pdf plugin or service. All you need to do is put an alias of your notetaker into: userfolder->Library->PDF services.

This worked like a charm for KIT for example & that’s also the way Yojimbo does it, so it should work with more apps!

Have you looked at EagleFiler?

http://c-command.com/eaglefiler/

I guess you know Yojimbo 1.3, now with tag support, was released a few days after your article? I’m hoping DEVONthink (Pro) 2.0 will support tags.

Cheers,
Leland

Right now I’m using KIT, which works nicely, but it’s more a “temporarily store things until they get well sorted and annotated” more than a final resting place for things. In parallel, I really like VoodooPad to keep track of many things.

I’ve been eyeing DevonThink for a while, and I was wondering if you would post your thoughts on it in this article (as you keep referring to it). And one other quick question: will this article appear again in your RSS feed when you refresh it?

Thanks a lot.

I was a big fan of StickyBrain’s (SOHONotes) floating notes. Unfortunately, StickyBrain becomes very slow once its database grows to a certain size. DEVONThink, on the other hand, remains amazingly fast on my current 1GB database.

Cheers, Robert