Comments on: How Many Firefox Extensions Does It Take To Make One SafariStand? http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html I've been observing personal computing behavior for a long time, and now I have some things to say. Here are my two cents about computing, music, software, and related topics. Tue, 28 Apr 2026 15:06:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Leland http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-472 Leland Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:38:12 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-472 Nathan, Firefox 2.0, which had not been released when the article was written, does add several useful new features... as any upgraded software should. My point in the article wasn't about what Safari can do that Firefox can't, because there's no question that the universe of Firefox plugins is so huge that you can add almost any useful functionality into it by now. My experience using Firefox even a couple of years ago, however, was that you end up wasting huge amounts of time going through all the available plugins, and then once you add more than about 4 or 5 it becomes a bother to keep track of them. They also tend to clutter up the user interface quite a bit, as each add-on claims its own space in the dwindling window chrome. Rather, my point was that writers all over the web keep making the statement that "Safari can't do [x]" or "Safari has no plugins", and that's just not true. Not only can Safari do all the important things that Firefox can, but in terms of page rendering speed on Mac OS X, it beats Firefox all to hell. Being a Cocoa app, it also has access to the wealth of Cocoa application plugins that are available (mostly for free) to Mac users. Finally, take a look at how Firefox renders type some time. Another blogger pointed this out in a recent article, and ever since then it's finally gelled with me why I hate the way Firefox makes the web look: Firefox is absolutely lousy at rendering type. Take any given page and look at it in both Firefox and Safari and see if you don't notice the difference in kerning, ligatures, and all the other fine points that has characterized the Mac interface since the very beginning. Firefox ignores all of that when rendering type, and it makes text look horrible, no matter how nice you can finesse the chrome with a nice skin. If I have time, I'm going to do an in-depth article on this soon, because it explains a lot for why Mac users don't use Firefox more than they do. Cheers, Leland Nathan,
Firefox 2.0, which had not been released when the article was written, does add several useful new features… as any upgraded software should. My point in the article wasn’t about what Safari can do that Firefox can’t, because there’s no question that the universe of Firefox plugins is so huge that you can add almost any useful functionality into it by now. My experience using Firefox even a couple of years ago, however, was that you end up wasting huge amounts of time going through all the available plugins, and then once you add more than about 4 or 5 it becomes a bother to keep track of them. They also tend to clutter up the user interface quite a bit, as each add-on claims its own space in the dwindling window chrome.

Rather, my point was that writers all over the web keep making the statement that “Safari can’t do [x]” or “Safari has no plugins”, and that’s just not true. Not only can Safari do all the important things that Firefox can, but in terms of page rendering speed on Mac OS X, it beats Firefox all to hell. Being a Cocoa app, it also has access to the wealth of Cocoa application plugins that are available (mostly for free) to Mac users. Finally, take a look at how Firefox renders type some time. Another blogger pointed this out in a recent article, and ever since then it’s finally gelled with me why I hate the way Firefox makes the web look: Firefox is absolutely lousy at rendering type. Take any given page and look at it in both Firefox and Safari and see if you don’t notice the difference in kerning, ligatures, and all the other fine points that has characterized the Mac interface since the very beginning. Firefox ignores all of that when rendering type, and it makes text look horrible, no matter how nice you can finesse the chrome with a nice skin. If I have time, I’m going to do an in-depth article on this soon, because it explains a lot for why Mac users don’t use Firefox more than they do.

Cheers,
Leland

]]> By: Nathan M http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-471 Nathan M Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:09:44 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-471 Actually, over half the list is possible in Firefox 2 without any additional extensions. And many of the items in the list aren't really missing features, just differences in design philosophy. Specifically, 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 12 already work without any extensions. Items 2, 5, and 11 are just done differently in Firefox. As to 7, viewing the source already uses syntax highlighting, but what do you mean by editable? Where are the changes saved? Regarding 9 and 10, the bookmarks and history are already searchable. Like "workspaces," all open tabs can bookmarked into a folder, or all bookmarks in a folder can be opened in tabs. I'll admit that bookmark management is one of the biggest weaknesses in Firefox, but whether it's a floating palette or not is personal preference. Actually, over half the list is possible in Firefox 2 without any additional extensions. And many of the items in the list aren’t really missing features, just differences in design philosophy. Specifically, 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 12 already work without any extensions. Items 2, 5, and 11 are just done differently in Firefox. As to 7, viewing the source already uses syntax highlighting, but what do you mean by editable? Where are the changes saved? Regarding 9 and 10, the bookmarks and history are already searchable. Like “workspaces,” all open tabs can bookmarked into a folder, or all bookmarks in a folder can be opened in tabs. I’ll admit that bookmark management is one of the biggest weaknesses in Firefox, but whether it’s a floating palette or not is personal preference.

]]> By: David http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-470 David Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:23:27 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-470 Many thanks for this - I've gone back to SafariStand and found it much better than I remember. Interesting to note wjv's comments about Shiira/SafariStand developers - they've obviously gone for the botton dock in Shiira - I prefer the side but Stand annoys me in the fact that you can't turn off the tabs - ideal is Shiira with dock at the side. Many thanks for this - I’ve gone back to SafariStand and found it much better than I remember.

Interesting to note wjv’s comments about Shiira/SafariStand developers - they’ve obviously gone for the botton dock in Shiira - I prefer the side but Stand annoys me in the fact that you can’t turn off the tabs - ideal is Shiira with dock at the side.

]]> By: Leland http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-469 Leland Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:17:57 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-469 wjv, well that makes sense! I figured, since they're both from Japan, that they had to at least know each other. All good for WebKit fans. wjv, well that makes sense! I figured, since they’re both from Japan, that they had to at least know each other. All good for WebKit fans.

]]> By: wjv http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-468 wjv Thu, 09 Nov 2006 06:52:28 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-468 Well, since the SafariStand developer is also one of the Shiira developers, it's no wonder they seem to "borrow" features from each other. ;-) Well, since the SafariStand developer is also one of the Shiira developers, it’s no wonder they seem to “borrow” features from each other. ;-)

]]> By: Leland http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-467 Leland Tue, 31 Oct 2006 15:10:19 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-467 Hi Simon, Absolutely! Firefox is a great web browser... in some ways, better than Safari. I thank the web gods every day for Mozilla and that group's powerful influence on the browser market. Without them, Windows users might have been stuck with IE6 forever! :-) I know it sounds like I'm pitting Firefox against Safari, but it's not really that. I just get sick of the ignorant comments from people who seem to get some thrill from putting Safari down. I've had my moments when I thought Safari was an Apple mistake, but they've done an amazing job of bringing it along in just a few short years. Open-sourcing WebKit was a very smart move, because a project like this, which doesn't make the company any money, desperately needs enthusiastic, smart developers who can contribute to its growth. Yes, Firefox has a number of features I'd like to see standard in Safari--customizable search form, better in-page search, better page info system, better debugging, draggable tabs, etc. Some of those are coming in Safari 3.0, as I've blogged about. Most of the others are readily available for free in plugins like SafariStand. And having wasted hours and hours browsing through all the cool-sounding Firefox extensions and themes, I'm grateful to not have that distraction be part of my browsing experience. :-) SafariStand's Page Info window is superior to Firefox's, though, in one important respect: You can not only get a list of the page's resources, but you can view the source code right in the same window without any extra effort. And the search plugins for Safari are a big improvement over Firefox's native customization options. Check out the features of <a href="http://www.pozytron.com/?acidsearch" rel="nofollow">pozytron.com: AcidSearch</a> some time: Awesome! I didn't include it in the article because it was a shareware product until just yesterday, but Safari also now has an incredible search add-on called <a href="http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/" rel="nofollow">http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/</a> that's available for free. It not only looks amazing, but it goes way beyond the basics of adding more search engines. If Camino were as full-featured as (Safari+plugins like AcidSearch and SafariStand), I might be compelled to make it my default browser. Prior to Safari 2.0, which came with Tiger, Camino was indeed my default browser. But Safari was the first browser that really integrated RSS well, and Safari 2.0 was much more stable and standards-compliant than previously... and it was faster than Camino. Browsers change, and I don't believe in sticking to one to the bitter end. I just think a lot of people don't realize how great Safari has become, and how rich the Safari add-on market is nowadays. Hence, this blog post. Cheers, Leland Hi Simon,
Absolutely! Firefox is a great web browser… in some ways, better than Safari. I thank the web gods every day for Mozilla and that group’s powerful influence on the browser market. Without them, Windows users might have been stuck with IE6 forever! :-)

I know it sounds like I’m pitting Firefox against Safari, but it’s not really that. I just get sick of the ignorant comments from people who seem to get some thrill from putting Safari down. I’ve had my moments when I thought Safari was an Apple mistake, but they’ve done an amazing job of bringing it along in just a few short years. Open-sourcing WebKit was a very smart move, because a project like this, which doesn’t make the company any money, desperately needs enthusiastic, smart developers who can contribute to its growth.

Yes, Firefox has a number of features I’d like to see standard in Safari–customizable search form, better in-page search, better page info system, better debugging, draggable tabs, etc. Some of those are coming in Safari 3.0, as I’ve blogged about. Most of the others are readily available for free in plugins like SafariStand. And having wasted hours and hours browsing through all the cool-sounding Firefox extensions and themes, I’m grateful to not have that distraction be part of my browsing experience. :-)

SafariStand’s Page Info window is superior to Firefox’s, though, in one important respect: You can not only get a list of the page’s resources, but you can view the source code right in the same window without any extra effort. And the search plugins for Safari are a big improvement over Firefox’s native customization options. Check out the features of pozytron.com: AcidSearch some time: Awesome!

I didn’t include it in the article because it was a shareware product until just yesterday, but Safari also now has an incredible search add-on called http://www.inquisitorx.com/safari/ that’s available for free. It not only looks amazing, but it goes way beyond the basics of adding more search engines.

If Camino were as full-featured as (Safari+plugins like AcidSearch and SafariStand), I might be compelled to make it my default browser. Prior to Safari 2.0, which came with Tiger, Camino was indeed my default browser. But Safari was the first browser that really integrated RSS well, and Safari 2.0 was much more stable and standards-compliant than previously… and it was faster than Camino.

Browsers change, and I don’t believe in sticking to one to the bitter end. I just think a lot of people don’t realize how great Safari has become, and how rich the Safari add-on market is nowadays. Hence, this blog post.

Cheers,
Leland

]]> By: Simon Proctor http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-466 Simon Proctor Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:09:12 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-466 Yup deliberately provocative is a great description. Now I've been reading your blog for a while as I'm hoping when I finally convince my bosses to get me a new development machine it's going to be a shiny Mac with many processors, memory coming out of it's ears and Parallels running so I can test stuff in IE. Safari looks lovely, and I think it's a real shame that you can only get it on Macs as it makes it a bugger for those of us who want to test pages but don't have a Mac available. But you do realise that a number of the plus points you mention about SafariStand are available out of the box with Firefox? Find as you type, modifying the search engines available and the page info display have all been there for quite a while. I admire Apple for what they've done in the past and what they are doing now, but you've got to admit that the guys and gals at Mozilla have done a good job with their browser. If Safari was an option available to me at this moment I might choose to use it full time and if my plan comes to fruition I might just get to do that. Sorry for the rant but it kind of got my blood boiling a bit, but I do enjoy your posts and will continue to read them. I would post a link to my feeble site but it got wiped a couple of weeks ago and I haven't got round to rebuilding it. Long story. Yup deliberately provocative is a great description. Now I’ve been reading your blog for a while as I’m hoping when I finally convince my bosses to get me a new development machine it’s going to be a shiny Mac with many processors, memory coming out of it’s ears and Parallels running so I can test stuff in IE.

Safari looks lovely, and I think it’s a real shame that you can only get it on Macs as it makes it a bugger for those of us who want to test pages but don’t have a Mac available.

But you do realise that a number of the plus points you mention about SafariStand are available out of the box with Firefox? Find as you type, modifying the search engines available and the page info display have all been there for quite a while.

I admire Apple for what they’ve done in the past and what they are doing now, but you’ve got to admit that the guys and gals at Mozilla have done a good job with their browser. If Safari was an option available to me at this moment I might choose to use it full time and if my plan comes to fruition I might just get to do that.

Sorry for the rant but it kind of got my blood boiling a bit, but I do enjoy your posts and will continue to read them. I would post a link to my feeble site but it got wiped a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t got round to rebuilding it.

Long story.

]]> By: sjk http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-465 sjk Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:23:56 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-465 Thanks for the great SafariStand overview. It tempts me to give it another chance; clearly there's been significant progress since my last try over a year ago. Hopefully it and PithHelmet can peacefully co-exist. Thanks for the great SafariStand overview. It tempts me to give it another chance; clearly there’s been significant progress since my last try over a year ago. Hopefully it and PithHelmet can peacefully co-exist.

]]> By: Simp's http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-464 Simp's Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:24:10 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-464 I just love it ! Just discovered you can drag thumbnails around, even from window to window ;c) I just love it ! Just discovered you can drag thumbnails around, even from window to window ;c)

]]> By: Simp's http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-479 Simp's Mon, 30 Oct 2006 19:24:10 +0000 http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2006/10/how-many-firefox-extensions-does-it-take-to-make-one-safaristand.html#comment-479 I just love it ! Just discovered you can drag thumbnails around, even from window to window ;c) I just love it ! Just discovered you can drag thumbnails around, even from window to window ;c)

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