Comments on: Yahoo’s Ajax/DHTML User Interface Library Apparently Fails Its Own Test

By: Leland Scott

Leland Scott — Sat, 20 May 2006 00:17:14 +0000

Ow! Man, when you bite, Dan, you don’t fool around!

I can’t imagine what your issue is, but I do know this much… you’ve completely shattered my fantasy that Mac users are all intelligent, thoughtful people. Why I should have thought that when we have to count Rush Limbaugh as a user, I don’t really know. I still think it’s true as a generalization, but clearly there are some really nasty guys who crawl out from behind their Macs now and then to bite hardworking bloggers like me that they happen to take a disliking to.

I’m not going to try to explain my point of view to you further, since if you haven’t gotten it by now, you are just intellectually or spiritually incapable. And that’s fine… I expect a lot of people don’t agree.

I certainly do take issue with your attempt to smear me by claiming that I was comparing myself to Berners-Lee. That’s like saying that a preacher is comparing himself with God because he’s preaching the God’s gospel. Or that someone who praises Einstein thinks that in doing so he’s comparing himself to that genius. What kind of weak intellect does it take to imagine such a thing?

I do count myself as an admirer of Berners-Lee, and I quote him because I think he’s right on in his vision for the web. A vision you obviously don’t share, since you’re arguing with me for illuminating it.

Whether I shop at Yahoo or not isn’t the point, is it? Whoever opens a business on the web has an obligation to do so in a way that’s universally accessible, regardless of my browser of choice. (No, not a legal obligation, but, I believe, a moral and intellectual one.) I’ve vowed to become something of a thorn in the side of those businesses that fail in this, particularly now that we’re entering an important new stage of the web, ushered by the maturing technologies of JavaScript, CSS, and Ajax.

If you don’t like that, that’s your right. But while I can already count some achievements in my year-long effort to call down large companies that behave badly towards Mac users, what achievement will you be able to point to at the end of a year of bashing bloggers’ honest efforts at exercising their rights and responsibilities as members of a free democracy?

Perhaps you can gather all your nasty emails into a scrapbook… or publish them on the web for all to see! It will be a joy and comfort to you when you’re old, I’m sure, and an achievement that will motivate your children and grandchildren.

In case I haven’t been clear, Dan, you are no longer welcome on Mars. This is a serious site with a serious purpose, and I am happy to engage in serious dialogue about the issues discussed here. You are not interested in discussion … but only in expressing your unfocused anger, and that’s simply not productive for anyone. I’ll have to ask Gruber–a man I have great respect for, by the way–if you’ve made yourself a nuisance on his site, too.

By: dan

dan — Fri, 19 May 2006 14:11:14 +0000

OK, I will bite, I will waste a few more minutes of everyone’s time. First, good job, you can read your web stats. I use Camino, because it works, I grew tired of Safari showing blank pages (including on Apples site) and growing slower and slower with every update. I wouldn’t complain anyway because, I use what works, then I get on with my day and not think twice about it. Camino provide me a browser that works seamlessly with any site I go to, integrates, video, etc, so I guess a person can’t ask for much more.

Actually, I think its a bit of a stretch to correlate “another context” to open doors of business. Is it *really* that important? Does Yahoo provide a service to you that you cant get elsewhere and with better quality? Are you whining about other sites that aren’t “compliant”?

I’m sure Yahoo thanks you for stepping up and noticing that things don’t quite work so well with Safari. Might it be possible that they release a preview with limited abilities to the largest market share, perhaps to solicit feedback from a larger group of people than a comparatively small group of Safari users?

How can you seriously compare yourself to Tim Berners-Lee? Come on…

Maybe you should stop with your blog, (along with that intellectual “genius” Jon Gruber) since, although its incredibly self serving to you, I can’t really see how others would find the value in it. Good thing the web is so wide open so I won’t have to wade though this part any more.

By: Leland

Leland — Fri, 19 May 2006 02:26:59 +0000

Dan, yes, I’m insane. Just as Tim Berners-Lee, the guy who created the web, is insane. There are a lot of us Martians who have this odd sense that doors to businesses should be open to everyone in this country. (Haven’t we been through that already in another context?) Previews have a way of becoming permanent if no one notices there’s anything wrong, Dan. I gather you wouldn’t be one to complain, since you’re using Camino, right? Heaven forbid you should decide to use Safari one day, even though Safari is the #1 most-standards-compliant web browser, with Opera following closely behind. Odd that neither of those browsers is welcome at this “preview,” I think.

Dan, it sounds like you need a blog, since you’ve obviously got something to say. That, after all, is what blogs are for.

Blurry… good question! I have no idea. That phrase just melted out of my fingers as I was typing.

By: blurry

blurry — Fri, 19 May 2006 00:59:34 +0000

What exactly is a “fertile melting ground”?

By: dan

dan — Thu, 18 May 2006 19:06:35 +0000

Are you people insane? Isnt this a preview? Whats with the odd sense of entitlement?

This is a web 2.0 site? How can that be? Perhaps you are misleading people by referring to soemthing thats pretty much vaporware right now to the general public.

Not everyone should have a blog.

By: Poster

Poster — Wed, 17 May 2006 16:56:33 +0000

Yahoo does have a history of screwing over Mac users (Yahoo messenger, anyone?). Is this further evidence of such? I’m not too sure, but poor management is poor management no matter whom it hits. Look at that error message. I mean, really. Why would you release a product and then put up this snivelly “we don’t support you yet” message. If that’s not the internet equivalent of “no Irish need apply” I don’t know what is. It does bode ill for the future, because the same managers that drove the team to post an unfinished product will examine the logs and say, “Look! We’re not getting hits from Opera or Safari, anyway, so let’s run with what we’ve got!” *shaking head* I can just see this happening, though I hope that I’m wrong.

By: artMonster

artMonster — Wed, 17 May 2006 16:11:26 +0000

If you change the user agent under the debug window in Safari, Yahoo loads the new interface. I don’t know what all it is supposed to do, but everything seems to work ok.

By: Leland

Leland — Wed, 17 May 2006 13:57:54 +0000

Chris,
I agree that the YUI works in Safari… that’s why I had graded it an “A” for cross-browser support in March. The failing the article refers to is in public perception of the library, which presumably Yahoo has used to build its new home page. If Yahoo can’t build a cross-browser, cross-platform home page using YUI, what does that say about it? Particularly in light of the YUI’s statement of purpose and high standards expressed for cross-browser support.

It just looks really bad, not that it really IS bad. I feel for the YUI developers, because they really do seem to have their act/head together. Someone at Yahoo appears to have made a really dumb, insensitive decision to launch this before it was ready to meet Yahoo’s own high standards as expressed in the YUI.

By: Chris Heilmann

Chris Heilmann — Wed, 17 May 2006 07:38:57 +0000

You are right in being annoyed by this but you are misleading readers with this title. The implementation of the new homepage to date blocks out users of Safari, but this does not make the YUI “fail the own test”. The web site is built with YUI, and something in the implementation might not work yet for Safari.
It is as if you’d build a buggy interface with prototype and then blame it on the library.